Good design vs bad design

[toximus]

While I really do not recommend the content in any of these videos as a whole, or the creators of the videos, or the products that they're pushing, a couple of videos caught my attention that illustrate very well the difference of a better designed rig vs a worse design.

Watch these Cherokees and how light they seem to get on the front (20:41-23:19):



Now watch how this BomberFab build goes beyond angles what they're doing and doesn't even begin to get sketchy (8:42-12:40):



The first video also has a couple of other builds doing the same obstacles that handle very differently from the others. What's the difference between them and why do they perform very differently?

 

[Chris]

If that wasn't those Light Bright dipshits I would watch it (sorry, can't stand those clowns).

@jjvw has been meaning to watch this one though to see how they like their new tires

BomberFab is a very reputable company with a KOH win under their belt. I think I trust them far more than I trust Rusty's. I can say that much without even having to watch the second video.

That first video, didn't you post that the other day @Apparition?

 

[jjvw]

I'll watch. I could use the distraction right now.

 

[Chris]

I'll watch. I could use the distraction right now.

In that case, I want to know how they like their new tires

 

[Apparition]

If that wasn't those Light Bright dipshits I would watch it (sorry, can't stand those clowns).

@jjvw has been meaning to watch this one though to see how they like their new tires

BomberFab is a very reputable company with a KOH win under their belt. I think I trust them far more than I trust Rusty's. I can say that much without even having to watch the second video.

That first video, didn't you post that the other day @Apparition?

Yes, I’ve posted both vids in different threads.

No real reason to watch lite brite since their channel is just see how much noise you can make with the go pedal. I enjoyed them when they were basically stock.

 

[jjvw]

I watched the sections Tox mentioned. I see a huge difference in how controlled the various builds are. The two XJs are as stable and predictable as a water bed on a sailboat in a storm. Knowing these two are from a recent cheap build series, I can assume both were out together with the sole intention of getting a specific size big tire under there and little else.

From there, we can surmise that the tires are whatever they could get their hands on with the budget. Myself having gone from garbage tires to wonderful tires within a season, that alone makes a tremendous difference in control and stability.

The light fronts are largely the result of what is happening in the rear. This is heavily dictated by the suspension geometry and the shocks.

The gearing and crawl ratio also looks to be higher than it ought to be.

Compare that to the BomberFab Ultra 4 car, where the shocks are tuned, front and rear sway bars exist, the suspension geometry is considered and the tires are likely really good. Every aspect of the car is considered to some degree and that is going to add up to a well controlled and predictable rock crawler.

Even the silver Scrambler has more going on in it's favor than the XJs do.

 

[mrblaine]

BomberFab is a very reputable company with a KOH win under their belt. I think I trust them far more than I trust Rusty's. I can say that much without even having to watch the second video.

I don't think you know who Randy is.

 

[toximus]

I watched the sections Tox mentioned. I see a huge difference in how controlled the various builds are. The two XJs are as stable and predictable as a water bed. Knowing these two are from a recent cheap build series, I can assume both were out together with the sole intention of getting a specific size big tire under there and little else.

From there, we can surmise that the tires are whatever they could get their hands on with the budget. Myself having gone from garbage tires to wonderful tires within a season, that alone makes a tremendous difference in control and stability.

The light fronts are largely the result of what is happening in the rear. This is heavily dictated by the suspension geometry and the shocks.

The gearing and crawl ratio also looks to be higher than it ought to be.

Compare that to the BomberFab Ultra 4 car, where the shocks are tuned, front and rear sway bars exist, the suspension geometry is considered and the tires are likely really good. Every aspect of the car is considered to some degree and that is going to add up to a well controlled and predictable rock crawler.

Even the silver Scrambler has more going on in it's favor than the XJs do.

Where it really gets interesting is the 28 minute mark. So far the (Genright?) Jeep out performs the rest but suddenly that changes when he can't get up and flips after a few attempts.

 

[toximus]

I don't think you know who Randy is.

Its amazing how well the car performs despite the driver's lack of skill (I'm not trying to bash his skill level, I'm sure many of us would be worse if put behind the wheel. We don't normally see this level of skill in this type of build). Watch how he slows down, gets hung up, slows even more, hammers it, and then the car finds traction even in this worst case scenario.

 

[someguysjeep]

IDK i see the front springs on those XJ's pushin out to full extension, once the front end is up.
the buggy seems to have more up than down, the droop is moderate and can't be pushed out far enough to give that effect.

the white 1 is droppin the front springs off while it's climbing

 

[jjvw]

Where it really gets interesting is the 28 minute mark. So far the (Genright?) Jeep out performs the rest but suddenly that changes when he can't get up and flips after a few attempts.

Arms are too long!

 

[mrblaine]

Its amazing how well the car performs despite the driver's lack of skill (I'm not trying to bash his skill level, I'm sure many of us would be worse if put behind the wheel. We don't normally see this level of skill in this type of build). Watch how he slows down, gets hung up, slows even more, hammers it, and then the car finds traction even in this worst case scenario.

My only point is Randy is arguably 1 of the top 5 race car builders for KOH type stuff in the US. If you race in his class in KOH, you will always have to beat him to win meaning that in any given race, he will be right there at the finish every time he pulls off the start line. So not only is he a top class builder, he races what he builds.

Saying you trust him more than Rusty's is like saying you don't trust gas station sushi in Nebraska. Well no shit, who does?

 

[kmas0n]

My only point is Randy is arguably 1 of the top 5 race car builders for KOH type stuff in the US. If you race in his class in KOH, you will always have to beat him to win meaning that in any given race, he will be right there at the finish every time he pulls off the start line. So not only is he a top class builder, he races what he builds.

Saying you trust him more than Rusty's is like saying you don't trust gas station sushi in Nebraska. Well no shit, who does?

haha, Wait...
What's wrong with Nebraskan Conoco sushi?

 

[someguysjeep]

Arms are too long!

that and his MO looks to be if i can't climb it i'll try and jump it.

 

[jjvw]

that and his MO looks to be if i can't climb it i'll try and jump it.

It does looks like a problem of too much exuberance

 

[Apparition]

It does looks like a problem of too much exuberance

That had been the new plague of YouTube. Too many people watching gridloc with that supercharged caddy on 46’s. Although he rolled in the last video I saw of his too.

 

[Fouledplugs]

Anyone in here have any of their rigs climbing/rock crawling on youtube?



I understand both sides of the coin, but seems like they make a fortune producing videos without any real understanding of building a rig.

So, easily, someone smarter than them could have a channel or two and make money (much more in theory) and spread truths....

 

[toximus]

Anyone in here have any of their rigs climbing/rock crawling on youtube?



I understand both sides of the coin, but seems like they make a fortune producing videos without any real understanding of building a rig.

So, easily, someone smarter than them could have a channel or two and make money (much more in theory) and spread truths....

Entertainment sells and they make more money selling shovels than explaining optimal shovel design.

 

[jjvw]

Entertainment sells and they make more money selling shovels than explaining optimal shovel design.

All it takes is some charisma and likability!

 

[toximus]

All it takes is some charisma and likability!

Maybe if we all pitch in to buy @mrblaine a cute top to go with his skirt he'd make us some videos.