Is my pitman arm and track bar too close?

[mrblaine]

It is a hodgepodge of marketing. They sold items under the misinformation they make things better. In fact they make things much worse.
With the high steer you are in the realm of custom track bar mounts to help with your angles. None of which are needed for a stock axle.

That only partially solves the problem of bump steer. The reason for that is due to a severe unwillingness to move the springs back, the trackbar has to be inside the spring which shortens it a fair bit more than is prudent. That will induce some level of bump steering purely based disparate link lengths. That can be cheated some or more than some in the same way the factory did it with their disparate length links by fudging the angles and running them slightly out of parallel.

I'd keep the high steer and build a new trackbar and axle side mount to bring them into mostly parallel. (or I would if I was him but I myself would never do it that way)

 

[TurboTJ]

That will raise that end of the drag link not track bar.

Yes you are correct, I mispoke. The net result being an improvement in the relationship of the drag link to the track bar.

 

[mrblaine]

Well…..look again. He already has the dropped Pitman arm. He is putting the stock Pitman arm back on. That will raise that end of the track bar.

Yeah, not so much.

 

[mrblaine]

Yes you are correct, I mispoke. The net result being an improvement in the relationship of the drag link to the track bar.

It's so hard to keep track of all those linkages, all both of them.

 

[Jerry Bransford]

My angles and geometry are almost perfect. But… my pitman arm is so dang close now to the track bar because of the larger bar and beefier joint, but it does NOT touch. To keep my geometry would you go with a less drop PA or stock PA or just leave it since the 2 will never get close since the are both stationary on the frame.

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The various angles shown on your angle finder don't show what you think they're showing. The angles of the track bar and drag where you measured them are not showing their operating plane angles. That's why the RE guy didn't know what he was talking about when he recommended you measure them like that.

The operating planes of the track bar and drag link are what you'd see if you strung a string between their mounting points. As you can see there are several bends at various points and several angles on them. None of them are their operating planes.

The below shows the only things you can measure to show their operating planes, the red and yellow lines which show the operating planes of the track bar and drag link. Like strings measured between their respective mounting points. Those two planes, shown in red and yellow below, are the two operating planes that need to be parallel to prevent bump steer. None of the bends or various angles at various points on the drag link and track bars count for anything where the operating planes are concerned.

 

[someguysjeep]

not fond of how the that TB appears to sit in the axle mount looks like it's up on the roof with not much room. that double damper is ready to be taco'd around the TR or axle tube and has to go...... somethings already contacted the long ass upper bolt on the bracket and bent it to death.

do the make a hex clamp? or i'd get some round stock for the TR.

 

[Slicknick630]

That only partially solves the problem of bump steer. The reason for that is due to a severe unwillingness to move the springs back, the trackbar has to be inside the spring which shortens it a fair bit more than is prudent. That will induce some level of bump steering purely based disparate link lengths. That can be cheated some or more than some in the same way the factory did it with their disparate length links by fudging the angles and running them slightly out of parallel.

I'd keep the high steer and build a new trackbar and axle side mount to bring them into mostly parallel. (or I would if I was him but I myself would never do it that way)

My original plan was to get the Barnes4wd adjustable axle bracket and frame Bracket. I already have the 1 in ID tube but Barnes I guess has a backorder for the heims that would be needed for that setup. But also the biggest reason I changed this mess to this track bar and bracket that’s in there now is because the previous owner did this abomination of weld job to a bracket and I broke a weld on the trail. But luckily my buddy gave me the RE extreme duty track bar and bracket because he ended up doing the Barnes setup sometime last year.

 

[Slicknick630]

not fond of how the that TB appears to sit in the axle mount looks like it's up on the roof with not much room. that double damper is ready to be taco'd around the TR or axle tube and has to go...... somethings already contacted the long ass upper bolt on the bracket and bent it to death.

do the make a hex clamp? or i'd get some round stock for the TR.

For round tube that have all sorts of clamps but the octagon tubing they are very limited but still have clamps for them

 

[Slicknick630]

Well I read through the teraflex installation guide and I guess if I would have read that earlier it would have saved me some trouble. It says with the high steer kit it eliminates the need for a drop pitman arm and many other issues I may have had. But anyway I I got the new stock pitman arm in and everything is closer now as far as my angles go. It’s not absolutely perfect but it drives great so far but still need to test it on the trails or over some roads with more bumps to get a better feel. I’m not really noticing any bump steer where I test drove it. The angle of the TB and DL is a roughly 5 degree difference. For now I am much happier and there is no more rubbing or contact with anything. Maybe in the future my setup will change but time will tell. Now on to a new stabilizer setup and to go have some fun on the trails. Thanks everyone for all the input and help.

 

[Gollywomper]

Glad you have some improvement. This is why most here suggest stock style steering and track bar mounts when ever possible. If we use stock mount locations then we maintain stockish steering geometry and function. Usually only when we get into aftermarket axles or one ton swaps do we see the need for custom steering, track bar and mounting.

 

[someguysjeep]

we have lots of "how to" stickies do we need a "don't use this" list too ?

 

[mrblaine]

we have lots of "how to" stickies do we need a "don't use this" list too ?

Absolutely not. Too many folks already think we only like 3 companies and you suck if you don't run their stuff.

 

[Gollywomper]

Absolutely not. Too many folks already think we only like 3 companies and you suck if you don't run their stuff.

It may seem that way when folks first arrive here. Most folks don’t like to hear the new RE lift they installed is not the best choice. But hang around here long enough and they will see it has nothing to do with brand and everything to do with what works well. Those well designed parts usually cost more than the cheaper made parts, that further adds to the resistance.

 

[mrblaine]

It may seem that way when folks first arrive here. Most folks don’t like to hear the new RE lift they installed is not the best choice. But hang around here long enough and they will see it has nothing to do with brand and everything to do with what works well. Those well designed parts usually cost more than the cheaper made parts, that further adds to the resistance.

I see if from folks who have been around a long time and who felt that way on other sites for years that have migrated over.

 

[someguysjeep]

Absolutely not. Too many folks already think we only like 3 companies and you suck if you don't run their stuff.

I never mentioned brand. Just inferior pieces or parts some know better than to use. And a why could be supplied to reinforce it with some logic.

 

[mrblaine]

I never mentioned brand. Just inferior pieces or parts some know better than to use. And a why could be supplied to reinforce it with some logic.

Alright, give it a shot with a couple of things and see how long it takes to get tied to a brand to avoid.

 

[someguysjeep]

Alright, give it a shot with a couple of things and see how long it takes to get tied to a brand to avoid.

i hear ya, you're not wrong. and as i think more on it.......... most times it's not necessarily the parts fault, it's the application.

 

[Blackjack]

It may seem that way when folks first arrive here. Most folks don’t like to hear the new RE lift they installed is not the best choice. But hang around here long enough and they will see it has nothing to do with brand and everything to do with what works well. Those well designed parts usually cost more than the cheaper made parts, that further adds to the resistance.

But the guy getting paid a commission at 4WP told them that RE (or insert whatever here) is what all the cool kids run and took their money. How is there not going to be some cognitive dissonance on their part when they hear something contrary? How is there not going to be sometimes heated debates over long arms when every magazine/talking head for years was telling you that it is what you need to fix all the problems they tell you have that you probably do not.

Like the Tera Steering Kit the OP has. It was a solution for guys running spring overs on YJs, but how many YJs are there compared to XJ/ZJ/TJs they could sell it to that solves a problem they really do not have? And instead of spending the effort on offering a complete product that actually could work they just added some gobbledygook to the installation instructions and left it up to the installer to figure it out.

 

[MikeE024]

I appreciate that and the help but damn, it sure does sometimes seem like if you don’t have a stock Jeep or run all the certain things people want you to run on your Jeep you get nowhere on here. But it can be such a great resource sometimes. It’s always bad mouthing the brand you went with or how wrong your setup is and how you should have, would have, or could have done it better. What’s the point of even trying to ask for help with the issues on your setup here if your always going to get led down a hole that’s only going toward what certain people want you to go with or how IT SHOULD BE DONE or Nothing else. Blaine definitely knows his stuff and his advice is much appreciated and I want to hear more of it now and in the future. Like I said though going with something like the Currie would be bad ass and I know would help but I don’t have that luxury right this moment and I’m working with what I got for now. But until then…lol I am swapping the PA this afternoon and see where that takes me and will take my angle measurements. If it’s really that far off and not drivable I will take Everyone’s advice on a better setup to go with and ditch the teraflex high steer completely and save for what you guys recommended.

This may be one of those moments where you feel attacked in the moment, but you look back later and appreciate the excellent advice provided to you for a very low cost (tough love). I’d take that deal 10/10 times.

 

[Slicknick630]

This may be one of those moments where you feel attacked in the moment, but you look back later and appreciate the excellent advice provided to you for a very low cost (tough love). I’d take that deal 10/10 times.

I totally get that and you may be right, but I was asking how I could fix the issue I have on my setup the way it is now. I get if I rip it all off and put a different setup on it will be way better. But again all I wanted to know is what I could do in the situation I was in. If I wanted to hear a bunch of stuff talking about how my setup is shit I would have posted a thread asking for what route I should go because I am getting rid of the high steer setup. I get it you guys are all RIGHT I need to buy a new setup for my Jeep but right now this what I got and it’s fixed. I think everyone has got there point across pretty well.